What language do you like listening from Takeshi?

[MissCarlos]

Well, Keanu was born in Lebanon. He grew up here.



Blond hair, green eyes. WOOOO!!!!

You have dial-up but you can visit his web site: www.vincentcorazza.com

(http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/vincecorazza He saw my page!!)

[Webmaster]

"Thanks for being a fan"?? hehehehe...

Anyone wanna try writing TK a letter and see if he'll get back to you? lol.

[MissCarlos]

That's what Vincent sent me!!

He wrote to me and I wrote back to him. Oh, it ONLY took me a half an HOUR to hit "reply"!!

I was so shy but he's a real sweetie!! Very down to earth and easy to get along with.

I COULD write to Takeshi. I'd send it off and then wonder, did I say the right thing? What if he thinks this or that? I shouldn't be worried, though.

[Webmaster]

When I was in Italy, every cop I saw on the streets were hotties. They looked like models

[MissCarlos]

I am such a fan girl!!

Italian stallions!! !_!

[Webmaster]

Veronica said:

but i don't understand...why did they dub takeshi and andy lau??

I think it's because Takeshi and Andy have accents. HOFD is a film from mainland China. TK, as we know, is from Taiwan and Andy is from Hong Kong. Their Mandarin sound different than the Mandarin spoken in mainland China... so if 3 actors (Zhang, TK, Andy) spoke with 3 different regional accents in one movie it's gonna be distracting. At least for all the people who understand Mandarin I suppose...

Actually I'm not totally sure if that's the reason but that's my version of it. I've read about Takeshi saying when he was filming the movie, director Zhang Yimou told him not to worry about his different accent... just do his best with the acting. So I guess they were gonna do something on the voice dubbing.

[TANHT]

Ugh, Webmaster, I must contradict you on your statement that TK's Mandarin was dubbed in HOFD. He wasn't dubbed, from what I've read so far regarding HOFD (and it's been a ton) only Andy Lau was dubbed.

TK has a gift for languages, that's obvious, since he speaks 5 different ones, all really well too. (How many of us can say we can speak 5 different languages?? I've seen partically all of his CHinese movies and I can definitely say I would recognize his sexy soulful distinctive voice anywhere and I would bet all the money I have (ok I don't have a lot!) that that is TK speaking in HOFD.

For anyone who wants to hear his amazing grasps of the 5 languages that he speaks, check out CHungking Express. The sceen where he's at the phone trying to call all the women he's ever had contact with to help him heal his broken heart ... poor baby ... he speaks Mandarin, Tawainese, Cantonese, Japanese and English.

I think director Wong Kar Wai got a kick out of the fact that TK could speak all these different languages so WKW let TK go to town in that sceen & in that movie. In Fallen Angels a lot of his voiceovers are in Tawainese as he's playing a Tawainese immigrant living w/ his Tawainese father in HK.

I think his best language is Mandarin ... the way he manipulates the soft tonal sounds of that language is soooo sexy ... that was all TK you heard seducing Zhang ZiYi in HOFD, it really was.

I also like hearing his Cantonese voice. Since the Cantonese tone reaches a lower register than Mandarin, he sounds really deep & manly when he speaks Cantonese. But I think he's not that confident with his Cantonese as most of the HK films he's been in, most of his characters have very little diagloue.

I'm just curious, after reading a lot of the postings on this forum, there seems to be a distinctive Japanese slant to what people know him from. Why is that? That surprises me because he seems very Chinese to me ... maybe that's just me ... anyway, I have a hard time picking out his voice in Japanese, it doesn't sound as sexy when he speaks Japanese.

Am I totally off the wall on that?

[Webmaster]

Alright I suppose the first thing we gotta know is that "which version are we talking about?"

The version I watched was the original Chinese version (not the U.S. version in which some scene got cut) I'm pretty sure that it wasn't TK's real voice talking. I was so anxious to find out whether it was dubbed or not 'cause I always want to hear the actors' true voice than some other voice actors doing voice dubbings... I could tell right away that it wasn't TK's own voice. I was really disappointed. That voice actor was good though. His voice was quite similiar to TK's... deep and manly but it really wasn't TK's. He had a certain accent that TK wouldn't have. Believe me I can tell. Unless we're talking about different versions of the movie here... then what I heard might not be what you heard.

I'm really interested in language and I study it so excuse me I can be a bit anal about such subject and I want people who aren't familiar with the Chinese language know a little more about this. This isn't about TK, I'm discussing 'bout the language. Mandarin is a language; Cantonese and Taiwanese are dialects. I mean strictly speaking they're all "Chinese" and only Mandarin is the official Chinese language. A lot of Chinese people speak Cantonese... it's so popular it seems like it's got upgraded to be a "language". But still.. it's a "dialect" to be correct. You speaking Mandarin, Cantonese, Taiwanese, Shanghaiese, Chiuchow.... (there're like 30+ different dialects in China and other Chinese-speaking regions) but it's all a form of Chinese. I suppose it's similiar to Spanish-speaking countries. South America. I mean most of the countries speak Spanish but they're different... different accents, vocabs, slangs, idioms, etc. yet you can still in a way communicate 'cause the base is Spanish. Say you know how to convert into Mexican-Spanish, Ecuador-Spanish and Argentine-Spanish... does that mean you speak 3 languages then?

Now, I have to clear the table. I'm not saying TK being able to speak 5 isn't impressive. It is hard and he is smart. He has that special ability 'cause Cantonese, Taiwanese and Mandarin are all Chinese BUT they're quite different in sounds and everything. I speak Cantonese, Mandarin, English fluently; I can understand Taiwanese by hearing and I've taken French and Spanish. I'm not fluent in the latter two I have to admit it but I can still handle a couple of lines. So the question is, what is considered speaking a language "well"? With grammatical and pronunciation errors and all but still be able to chitchat. Is it "well"?

So back to TK, his Cantonese is a little funny. I mean he has an accent 'cause he isn't a native Cantonese-speaker. It's good enough that he speaks it. Cantonese really is quite hard to master and I don't think it's smooth-sounding. I think he used to speak Cantonese better than now 'cause he used to make a lot more Hong Kong movies and he used to appeal on lots of HK TV shows and events ages ago when he wasn't THIS popular like in recent years. I agree that Mandarin might be his best language although he's said that Taiwanese was his first language. He also said in the SMAP show that in recent years he's forgetting how to speak Taiwanese. He usually speaks Taiwanese with his mom but now he would switch it to Mandarin sometimes 'cause he forgets how to say some words. He speaks Japanese like a native too as far as I know. I was told by someone who is a native Japanese speaker (hi Erika-chan if you're reading this.. hehe) that TK speaks the language fluently though sometimes he tends to mumble.

As for being "Chinese" or "Japanese"... I think in recent years he is more "Japanese". He speaks English now with a slight Japanese accent and his sense of humor is very "Japanese" (I read this from an article about this Hong Kong director who'd worked with him.. he mentioned that he couldn't really get TK's jokes 'cause it was sort of the Japanese sense of humor) I mean the guy's been living most of the time in Japan in the past 5-6 years or so... He used to be more "Chinese" before he did "God Please Give Me More Time". I mean during the years when he did a whole buncha Chinese movies...

Erika - I don't know if you're reading this but if you don't mind you can tell us more about TK's spoken Japanese... your observation is really insightful. Nobody here speaks Japanese as well as you (am I wrong?) Help us understand

There's something interesting too about the subject of "being multi-lingual"... people with a "gift" as well.

TK's 3-time costar Kelly Chen speaks Cantonese, Mandarin, Shanghaiese, English and Japanese.

TK's costar (also had been with him in 3 movies) Karen Mok speaks Cantonese, Mandarin, English, French and Italian.

A little interesting fact about Karen Mok (in "Fallen Angel", "Tempting Heart", "First Love Litter on the Breeze") her real name is Karen Morris. She is part Chinese, Persian, Welsh and German.


One last thing (my goodness this message is getting freakin' long)
The voiceover in "Fallen Angel" wasn't Taiwanese. It was Mandarin. TK's father in the movie spoke a lot of Taiwanese but TK only spoke Mandarin in it. I'm dead sure. Okay unless there's a "Taiwan version" dubbed in Taiwanese or something

[TANHT]

I certainly don't claim to be an linguistics expert, but I am confident enough in my knowledge of the distinction between Cantonese and Mandarin, to distinguish between them and the speaker's voice. There's a couple of reasons for that, I've watched more Hong Kong-made movies (in their various incarations, spoken in Cantonese, Mandarin, Vietnamese) than I care to admit, where I can recognize some Cantonese without subtitles and I'm studying Mandarin right now.

When anyone's talking about languages it's important to factor in history and region. China is a huge country, and at various times in its history the area that's considered China has changed.

I'm originally from Viet Nam, and at times during our history, Viet Nam was considered a part of China. THat meant that the "official" written language (I'm not so sure about the spoken language) was Chinese. Thus most educated Vietnamese people would have to learn & know written Chinese to conduct official business. Our original spoken language never changed, it was still Vietnamese but Vietnamese people would have to learn how to read & write Chinese since we were under Chinese rule.

If it had not been for our Vietnamese ancestors rebelling & gaining freedom from China, Viet Nam would still be consider part of China and spoken Vietnamese would probably have been considered a Chinese dialect even though it's not all similar to spoken Mandarin.

What's different about the Chinese dialects, is that the Chinese dialects are not similar at all (usually). My Mandarin teacher says she would not be able to understand a Cantonese speaker at all because the spoken language is so different. She has also said that the type of written Chinese that they use in HK is the traditional complex characters whereas when she was growing up, after the Cultural Revolution, Mainland CHinese were taught the simplified Chinese characters. She said she would hardly be able to read the HK newspapers if her father had not taught her some of the complex CHinese characters.

Tawain is a different story all together, you have to be aware of Chinese history to understand why Chinese people in Tawain know Mandarin, Tawainese, and some know Cantonese or Japanese. I'm simplifying this but way before the Chinese Cultural Revolution, the Nationalist CHinese and Communist Chinese fought for control of mainland China. The COmmunist Chinese won and the Nationalists fled to Tawain to settle up their idea of a government. THat's why Tawain's sovereignty is such an issue-Tawain's government claims itself as independent but China regards it as a renegade province. (I guess it depends on politics and who you talk to.) I also think the Japanese have always had an influence in Tawain and especially so during World War II.

When the Nationlist Chinese went to Tawain, they also brought their Mandarin language and made it the official language whereas Tawainese was the regional dialect. I used to work for a Chinese woman who was from Tawain. Her family was Cantonese but they settled in Tawain and she spoke Mandarin, Cantonese, & English. She used Cantonese with friends and family and knew Mandarin because it was the "official" language. But she was very pro-Cantonese and didn't seem to like Mainland CHina at all. I don't remember if she knew Tawainese or not.

I want to say that the written CHinese language is the same regardless of whether you're on the Mainland, HK or Tawain, but based on what my Mandarin teacher told me, that's not true. Since Mainland CHina is teaching their students simplified Chinese characters and places like HK & Tawain still use complex Chinese characters, some people will not be able to read simplified Chinese & others won't be able to read traditional Chinese. That's why subtitles are often offered in the Traditional & Simplified Chinese versions.

All of this is meant to imply that CHinese is a complicated language (spoken and written) and is constantly changing, usually depending on whoever's in power in whichever country where Chinese people are found.

Here's my viewpoint on the HK-made film. I've read many articles and learned from many obsessive viewings of HK films, they're made quickly, usually without a script (that's changing though), and the final dialgoue is added on later. The HK movie would get dubbed in Mandarin, Cantonese, depending on the market, and eventually dubbed in Vietnamese, Thai, Laotian and other markets where HK movies are shown. HK movies are like the Asian version of Hollywood movies, they're shown wherever there's a market for them and usually dubbed for that market. (I personally hate the dubbed English version of HK movies!)

During the late 90's I would first get Mandarin dubbed copies of the HK made films (I'm assuming because they were released in Tawain before being released in HK)
but these were the "unofficial" version and the visuals were usually bad. Weeks later the official version would arrive, the place where I rented these movies would buy the Cantonese dubbed version but they also came in the Mandarin dubbed version.

There was no way to tell whether what you heard was actually the actor's real voice-unless you watched everyone of the actor's movies and could pick out a constant voice. For the longest time I thought Jet Li had the best Cantonese voice ever--manly & herioc but when I heard him on a HK music award show speaking in his real voice (no dubbing no subtitles), it was shocking to hear his real voice.

What I've found from Takeshi's HK & Tawainese movies is remarkably consistent. To me, the tone of his voice sounds the same whether it's in Cantonese or Mandarin. I've found some of his "Chinese" movies that have been dubbed, the lastest HK version of Dr. Wai with Jet Li, and the Mandarin version of Jail in Burning Island, and the HK version of Hero. There's probably more.

But hearing him in interviews for HOFD & I'd say I'd be able to recognize his voice. I'm pretty sure in the US released version of HOFD that's Takeshi real voice. And although there are rumors that Andy Lau's mandarin was dubbed, I think in the US version of HOFD it really is Andy Lau speaking. It does depend on which version you're watching though. Instead of calling something the Chinese/HK/Tawainese version they should label it the "Actor's real voice" version.

But being in the legal field I know that things are only fact when they're proven. So who really knows?!!

As far as Fallen Angels is concerned, I thought in the version I have Takeshi is speaking Tawainese, I could be wrong, I haven't seen it in a while-makes me think I should watch it again soon! I do distinctively remember the Father speaking Tawainese though.

If anyone wants to hear Takeshi speaking English you should watch "Too Tired To Die". I didn't care for the movie, but it's a hoot to hear him speaking English. He's pretty good, I could understand everything he said.

Regarding the Chinese - Japanese thing, as far as I'm concerned Takeshi can be anything and everything he wants to be. He's just a gorgeous man who seems to have a really engaging personality and a beautiful soul. (Eek-that was really cheesy!) My whole point for bringing that up was to try to find people who'd seen him in his non-so-famous HK & Tawain movies ... Tempting Hearts, Dr. Wai, China Dragon, Feelings of Love ...

Sorry about posting such a long message but I had to get all of this out of my head!

[TANHT]

Ooops! I've just realized I've been spelling Taiwan as Tawain!! I'm not a complete idiot, really I'm not-just not a good speller.

[Webmaster]

For anyone who wants to hear TK speaking English unscripted (although he already knew what he should answer), check this out:

www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/collective/lff_daggers?size=16x9&bgc=8A9EC3&nbram=1&bbram=1

You can reherse, memorize lines all you want in movies, shows and stuff. But your language skill is put to test when it is live and unscripted

[TANHT]

Veronica said:

i enjoyed that post!!! i don't mind reading long posts if there's something interesting to read . i'm really glad to have it confirmed yet again that i did indeed hear takeshi's actual voice in HOFD. i felt that i did but when others told me it wasn't then i believed them for a minute! also, i am sooooooooooo grateful to you for writing about taiwan. i did not know the situation with taiwan, and now they are in the news again because china WANTS them. i think china needs to leave taiwan alone. sorry, it's not about the chinese people. i love the chinese people. i loathe and despite the chinese government. communists are such bullies and always have been.

Thanks for the support, Veronica! For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone wants to dub Takeshi's voice ... it's so irresistibly low & sexy! Makes ya melt with anticipation!! Yum. (So sounding like a hip, Generation-X, multiAsian dude may not be the most accurate thing for a Tang Dynasty police offical - it's just a movie! People fly in that movie anyway ... it's part of the fantasy, for 2 hours I can imagine that Takeshi's on his horse picking wildflowers for me and putting them in my hair. I'm much better looking than Zhang Ziyi. ) I paid my $8 now give me the guy's real voice!

I saw HOFD in the US theatres 9 times!! Insane, I know, but you don't get to see Asian people on the big screen in the US that often so I saw it every week it showed in my city. Funny story, after 1 HOFD showing I overheard these 2 middle-aged ladies (they had a ball during the movie, laughing in appropriate sceens, sad at the end & astonished that Kathleen Battle was singing the theme song) asking each other who the "younger" guy was because he was good-looking. They sat through the credits but couldn't spot his name. I wanted to tell them, "his name is Takeshi Kaneshiro and he's a huge star in Asia-Japan, Hong Kong & Taiwan, and he sings too!" But I chickened out. He could definitely be big in the US - women love him!

If it's true that the CHinese version of HOFD is dubbed, I'm really disappointed in director Zhang Yimou. He should know better, to me dubbing is the mark of a low budget movie that's only made to make money. (Unless the actor can't speak a word of the language, but Takeshi & Andy Lau can speak Mandarin, abet with accents.)

I'm so sure that in Chungking Express & Fallen Angels you're hearing the actor's true voices, if it's the version offically approved by director WOng Kar Wai. WKW is known as an "artist" & he's got enough faith in his actors to use their real voices. It's too bad his movies aren't that popular in HK - I was in HK in '95 when Fallen Angels was released & saw it at least twice, but there was only a handful of people in the theartes with me each time! Sad.

And, yes, China leave Taiwan alone!! Sorry, I'm getting on my policital soapbox here, but Taiwan is proving to the world that Chinese democracy works and should be allowed to florish. Down with totalitarian! Down with communism! Up with individual rights & freedom! (I really apologzie to all the Takeshi fans who have no interest in reading about politics-but as a someone who lost my country to communism, I need to say this.) China has a big influence in Asia, if China's able to force Taiwan into submission, democracy in Asia will be a sacred commodity. Ok, no more political nuggets from me.

Webmaster, how do you know that Takeshi was prepared for the questions in that BBC interview? Where do you find out all this information? Thank you for posting that , I thought he spoke so well!

[MissCarlos]

Webmaster said:

For anyone who wants to hear TK speaking English unscripted (although he already knew what he should answer), check this out:

www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/collective/lff_daggers?size=16x9&bgc=8A9EC3&nbram=1&bbram=1

You can reherse, memorize lines all you want in movies, shows and stuff. But your language skill is put to test when it is live and unscripted

WHOA!! WHOA!! That was nearly flawless!! A cute accent to boot!!

That's the first time I've ever heard him speak English. He had a bit of trouble but who can blame him? Still freakin' ADORABLE, anyway!!

[Swellboy]

I enjoy TK's voice-- among other things. I'll gladly watch him speak any language, including gibberish. He's so theatrically skilled that I'm sure it would be fun.

[MissCarlos]

As long as he's speaking to me, it's ALL good!!