Takeshi is a regular in Tokyo's gigalo club?!

[Veronica]

Guest-Asian said:

Take:

I hear your frustration here. I see how hard you are trying to prove (or show) that Takeshi is straight--but you are being met with somewhat disbelief.

On this site, for some reason, there is a virulent need to discuss Takeshi's sexual orientation (look at how many replies there are on this "gigolo" thread.)

Don't waste your time trying to convince anyone. There ARE some other really great English-based websites that DO NOT have actual threads on whetherTakeshi is gay or not.

Come to those--you will find yourself gettting what fan-sites should have: no rumor-mongering, but instead a wonderful space within which to discuss Takeshi as an artist. As a fan you shouldn't even be HAVING this discussion.

look here, take's comments regarding judy lin were not "met with disbelief" because we think takeshi is gay. take's comments were met with disbelief because i for one was curious to see what judy lin looked like, and found that she doesn't even exist on the internet. sorry, but it's safe to say that 9 times out of 10 if you can't find something on the net then it probably doesn't exist. the information highway is a powerful tool. take's comments simply didn't add up.

getting back to the subject: some of us do not NEED for ANYONE to "try and prove" that takeshi is straight. some of us already know that he is, because SOME of us believe what comes from takeshi's own mouth, as well as eyewitness reports of those around him, such as his colleagues. i have NO reason to believe takeshi is a liar, nor do i believe there is a mass-scale plot by his colleagues, friends and management company to make the public think he's straight. the only "virulent need to discuss takeshi's sexuality", as you say, comes from those who frankly seem to have a personal need for him to be gay or at least bisexual.

i do agree with you that as fans we shouldn't even be having this conversation, but i agree with you for different reasons. my reason is that it's a stupid topic that has no POINT.

[Trendie]

I have been looking at all these comments and I think if you take time to scroll thru' everything, there are so far only 3 users who appear to have substantial proofs on what they say: Archyteckie, Take and Asian Female. Most of the others seem to be contradicting themselves here and there... Veronica: your postings are always full of contradictions. You said Kimura looks "Sooooooo gay to you" and then all those nonsense blabber. Then you tried to scorn Take's comments when all the poor fella did was to give you a few links/ proofs, saying that he said Judy was "famous" which no one but yourself said. To be fair to you, if you want to see how or what Judy Lin looks like, do a search on ebay by searching under Judy Lin; or on Yahoo Taiwan by searching under —Ñ—t’à (you can do a cut and paste) for Judy Lin; or ‹àé• (for Takeshi Kaneshiro) or try this link, which is out of an auction site:

tw.search.bid.yahoo.com/search/ac?p=%AAL%B8%AD%ABF

Jade Dragon: I think in some Asian translations, it is country pumpkin as well.

And webmaster: didn't you call Jackie Chan a big pimp in one of your postings as well?

If you people like the man so much, why all the ill-mannered gossips and discussions about him. And worse, some of you even try to smite down those that have something positive to say about the guy and who bother to come up with proofs?

Take: I agree with Asian Female, no use talking to those that simply just want to stick to what they believe. I understand your good intentions. Maybe some people's worlds are just limited to Google alone...I think if Takeshi Kaneshiro ever read this site, he'll probably be thankful of the positive things you had to say...

Veronica: if you live on Google alone, you will probably not get a lot of information on Chinese, Japanese and probably a huge lot of foreign sites.

[Cecilia]

Thanks for the links, I manage to see the one on ebay and the direct link you poster. , isn't she gorgeous? . But there are 2 that came out as only squares on my computer , is there a way to see them as well?

[jadedragon]

Guest-Trendie said:

I have been looking at all these comments and I think if you take time to scroll thru' everything, there are so far only 3 users who appear to have substantial proofs on what they say: Archyteckie, Take and Asian Female. Most of the others seem to be contradicting themselves here and there... Veronica: your postings are always full of contradictions. You said Kimura looks "Sooooooo gay to you" and then all those nonsense blabber. Then you tried to scorn Take's comments when all the poor fella did was to give you a few links/ proofs, saying that he said Judy was "famous" which no one but yourself said. To be fair to you, if you want to see how or what Judy Lin looks like, do a search on ebay by searching under Judy Lin; or on Yahoo Taiwan by searching under —Ñ—t’à (you can do a cut and paste) for Judy Lin; or ‹àé• (for Takeshi Kaneshiro) or try this link, which is out of an auction site:

tw.search.bid.yahoo.com/search/ac?p=%AAL%B8%AD%ABF

Jade Dragon: I think in some Asian translations, it is country pumpkin as well.

And webmaster: didn't you call Jackie Chan a big pimp in one of your postings as well?

If you people like the man so much, why all the ill-mannered gossips and discussions about him. And worse, some of you even try to smite down those that have something positive to say about the guy and who bother to come up with proofs?

Take: I agree with Asian Female, no use talking to those that simply just want to stick to what they believe. I understand your good intentions. Maybe some people's worlds are just limited to Google alone...I think if Takeshi Kaneshiro ever read this site, he'll probably be thankful of the positive things you had to say...

Veronica: if you live on Google alone, you will probably not get a lot of information on Chinese, Japanese and probably a huge lot of foreign sites.

Trendie--I appreciate your comments, but let's not get sidetracked here from what the actual heart of the matter is. I, and a couple of other members are not referring to anything else but the name-calling that Take did and the arrogantly rude way he placed his comments. That's all--nothing more, nothing less. The 'gay' comments or whatever comments anyone has to say about Takeshi or any other entertainment personality is their own personal concern--not mine or anyone else's. My comment has nothing to do with Takeshi-- I was addressing Take's choice of words. Another thing is--there is no such thing as a direct Asian translation of a 'country pumpkin'--unless you are referring to a food source. Where do you think the term came from? --but, from the English word 'bumpkin'--meaning an awkward, unsophisticated person. Don't you think that the term 'pumpkin' was used because for a lot of Chinese who are not very proficient with the proper English pronounciation--they might say it as 'pumpkin'?--hence your spelling of it that way--instead of the correct word--'bumpkin'--which, again, I'm sure has no direct translation in Chinese. What I think you're doing is to nit-pick every other thing that you can find in this forum--and not address the real issue--which is Take's rudeness in the way he presented his comments. Yes--maybe-he was trying to provide valid info about Takeshi--which we all appreciate,-- -but, the way he 'delivered' it--that's what shocked me and some other members. And--believe me--I'm really fervently hoping Takeshi gets to read this forum--because-with his great intelligence and insight--he will see who are the sincere fans, and who the obnoxious troublemakers are. That's it--that's all--end of story!

[Veronica]

Guest-Trendie said:

I have been looking at all these comments and I think if you take time to scroll thru' everything, there are so far only 3 users who appear to have substantial proofs on what they say: Archyteckie, Take and Asian Female. Most of the others seem to be contradicting themselves here and there... Veronica: your postings are always full of contradictions. You said Kimura looks "Sooooooo gay to you" and then all those nonsense blabber. Then you tried to scorn Take's comments when all the poor fella did was to give you a few links/ proofs, saying that he said Judy was "famous" which no one but yourself said. To be fair to you, if you want to see how or what Judy Lin looks like, do a search on ebay by searching under Judy Lin; or on Yahoo Taiwan by searching under —Ñ—t’à (you can do a cut and paste) for Judy Lin; or ‹à?é•? (for Takeshi Kaneshiro) or try this link, which is out of an auction site:

tw.search.bid.yahoo.com/search/ac?p=%AAL%B8%AD%ABF

Jade Dragon: I think in some Asian translations, it is country pumpkin as well.

And webmaster: didn't you call Jackie Chan a big pimp in one of your postings as well?

If you people like the man so much, why all the ill-mannered gossips and discussions about him. And worse, some of you even try to smite down those that have something positive to say about the guy and who bother to come up with proofs?

Take: I agree with Asian Female, no use talking to those that simply just want to stick to what they believe. I understand your good intentions. Maybe some people's worlds are just limited to Google alone...I think if Takeshi Kaneshiro ever read this site, he'll probably be thankful of the positive things you had to say...

Veronica: if you live on Google alone, you will probably not get a lot of information on Chinese, Japanese and probably a huge lot of foreign sites.

why is it that posters like you, take, and asian female manage to only pop up to get fights started among the posters who are actually MEMBERS here? i've noticed that the past few days. you could all be the same person, for all we know. you don't join, but you come in as anonymous "guests" and do nothing but jump in and fuel arguments. you should respect the fact that there is a COMMUNITY here and keep your personal crusades to yourself. the actual members of this forum get along fine. it looks like the "guests" are trying to undermine that.

i have NEVER contradicted myself in my posts. you just told a lie about me and i don't appreciate it one bit. nice to know you're hanging onto all my words, though. [rolls@@eyes]

you clearly don't know anything about the members here and are just as clueless about how we interact with one another, including how we joke around. webmaster NEVER said jackie chan was "a big pimp". she made a JOKE when someone else mis-identified a person in a photo as being JC. her comment was "oh yeah, he's a big pimp". she was being facetious. you really should keep your accusations to yourself since you clearly are out of the loop here. it sounds to me like you read a lot of our posts with a motive to pick bones later on.

[MissCarlos]

Guest-Trendie said:

And webmaster: didn't you call Jackie Chan a big pimp in one of your postings as well?

You got no sense of humour.

It seems like a few guest-only members (not all) only want to come here a pick a fight.

And now the webmaster will talk to you and we'll all see what she has to say to you and we don't want to because it's something personal but you're not a registered member so she can't speak to you personally so we all have to see you get embarrassed.

She doesn't want to ban people but if you, Asian Female and take keep it up, you'll all be banned.

*cold sigh* I'm not the webamster but I feel like saying "grow up". I just did, but you know what I mean.

I don't agree with what some members have to say but they have other points I agree on. It seems like you, Asian Female and take are only focused on everything Asian, which is borderline racist. You're being close-minded. It sounds like you three only WANT him to remain in Asia and have only Asian fans from Asia.

He has fans of every colour (TickTake is the first African American fan I've seen of his. Welcome!! ) and creed and background. You three ought to open up and see what the world has to offer.

[Asian Female]

First of all: I don't know Take or anyone else who wrote to support me. I am, however, not surprised that there are some "guest' fans who are frustrated by this overemphasis on this website on Mr. Kaneshiro's sexual orientation or plastic surgery etc. We are guests because we haven't wanted to sign in because some of the discussion has been really offensive.

It seems to me that many of you are new fans of Takeshi--fans from having seen HOFD. There ARE however fans like Take and others who have been following Mr. Kaneshiro's career for over 10 years. Furthermore, we seem to be intimately aware of how ASIAN artists lead their star vs. private lives. Thus to see this kind of talk about his sexuality (someone on another thread even asked a a gay fan to use his "gay-der" to determine Mr. Kaneshiro's sexuality) smacks of a western obsession--that is any time a pretty man comes on the scene, he is labelled as gay (Richard Gere even had to take out a NYtimes full page ad). People like Ricky Martin, Tom Cruise, etc., all get harrassed by these speculations.

We do not do things this way in Asia. We respect our artist's RIGHT TO PRIVACY. I hate to see Mr. Kaneshiro being subjected to this kind of speculation--especially from fans who do not know much about his career over the past 10-13 years. I am glad that this star is gaining popularity in the West, but that doesn't mean that he be disrespected as well.

If Webmaster wants to ban me from this forum, that's fine with me. I do think, however, that people who make unsubstantiated claims about his sexuality should be the ones who get banned. Not the ones who defend him out of respect for an Asian sense of value for privacy. Leave the man's private life alone--please enjoy his movies (buy them directly from ebay, YesAsia, etc., so that a portion of your money goes DIRECTLY to the artists). Show your admiration for Mr. Kaneshiro by supporting his products, not by supporting rumors about his private life.

[Veronica]

Guest-Asian said:

First of all: I don't know Take or anyone else who wrote to support me. I am, however, not surprised that there are some "guest' fans who are frustrated by this overemphasis on this website on Mr. Kaneshiro's sexual orientation or plastic surgery etc. We are guests because we haven't wanted to sign in because some of the discussion has been really offensive.

oh please, AF, it's the "guest" fans who ARE the ones continuing to perpetuate the threads about takeshi's sexuality. every time a new "guest" fan shows up they go right for the "gay/plastic surgery" threads! also, i don't buy that "guest" fans aren't signing on because they are offended. if that is the case then why read and post to the board at all if they are offended by what they see here?

It seems to me that many of you are new fans of Takeshi--fans from having seen HOFD. There ARE however fans like Take and others who have been following Mr. Kaneshiro's career for over 10 years.

it's true that some of us are new fans who first became interested in takeshi b/c of HOFD. some of us have also done a lot to catch up. i have read more articles/interviews than i can keep count of, going all the way back to 1994. also, i have seen a number of his movies and at present am waiting for four more to arrive in the mail. and it's not easy to find these movies. i even got a DVD player for the first time in my life b/c i want to enjoy MORE of his work, and also more of asian films in general. i'm not some bimbo sitting here drooling over photos of takeshi and wondering who he's boinking. i admire him greatly as an artist and as a person, and i enjoy getting to know about him more and more. just b/c others have been fans longer doesn't mean you have cornered the market on being a fan.

Furthermore, we seem to be intimately aware of how ASIAN artists lead their star vs. private lives. Thus to see this kind of talk about his sexuality (someone on another thread even asked a a gay fan to use his "gay-der" to determine Mr. Kaneshiro's sexuality) smacks of a western obsession--that is any time a pretty man comes on the scene, he is labelled as gay (Richard Gere even had to take out a NYtimes full page ad). People like Ricky Martin, Tom Cruise, etc., all get harrassed by these speculations.

i agree that these comments are invasive. and i agree than some remarks would have been better off having been directed at the appropriate member in private (i.e. "what does your gay-dar tell you?") but at the same time people have a right to express themselves within reason. i disagree that these comments are "western obsession", but it doesn't surprise me that you would say something like that. you are hung up on your distaste for all things western, while you preach the perfection of asian culture. yet you live and work in the united states. if you hate it so bad, by all means you don't have to live here, do you? you continue to show disrespect for the western fans here who LOVE asian culture , asian cinema, and asian artists, and YES, ASIAN MEN (i also love asian food, my favorite in the whole world). i have never said this on this board before b/c it's private to me, but the truth is if i could meet and fall in love with a wonderful japanese or chinese man, i would be absolutely delighted. i'm not particularly fond of american men when it comes to marriage prospects, but that is my business. in any case, our love for all things asian doesn't interest you in the least. with all your pontificating about asia one would think you would be happy to exhange ideas with westerners who express a fondness for the culture you spend so much time defending. but yet all you do when you post here is ignore our positive comments about asia, and instead find fault with everything to do with western culture. every culture on this planet earth has positive and negative qualities to offer. i know for a fact that even asian culture is deficient in some of its cultural norms just as the west is. we can all learn from each other. frankly, i'm sick of your underhanded and derogatory comments about my country and my culture.

We do not do things this way in Asia. We respect our artist's RIGHT TO PRIVACY.

again, your slanted view of western culture is roaring like a lion. many westerners respect privacy, too. not all of us are sitting around reading 'the globe' and 'page six'. furthermore, you say that you live and work in the states, so why do you say "we do not do things this way in asia"? you're not *in* asia. you seem to be straddling two cultures and not succeeding very well at it.

I am glad that this star is gaining popularity in the West, but that doesn't mean that he be disrespected as well.

most fans in this forum DO NOT disrespect takeshi!!!!!!!

I do think, however, that people who make unsubstantiated claims about his sexuality should be the ones who get banned.

i'm inclined to agree with you here, but this is not a communist organization. some freedom of expression has to be allowed and encouraged, even if we don't agree. why would i say "ban this person" when that person is entitled to the same freedom of expression as i would like to be entitled to? i would far rather "battle" it out with another poster and risk being told things like "you need a chill pill" and "your pants are in a bunch" rather than to run like a baby to the moderator and try to get that person banned. the only time i have ever complained about a member to a moderator was over offensive remarks that kept going on and on, but i never said that person should be banned. i'm pleased the moderators don't operate like that. maybe some people would like to see me banned, who knows.

[Asian Female]

Okay...I am going to take a deep breath and respond to you, Veronica.

First of all, I have not made any personal attacks against anybody on this site. Yet I have been called a racist, my profession has been attacked, and now I am being told to not be "in" the U.S. Those kinds of personal attacks are really uncalled for.

Second of all: I am not making derogatory comments about western culture. I AM pointing to the way the west tends to treat its stars--as a general pattern. Stars are hounded by paparazzi (poor Princess Diana is a perfect example).

Also, I am referring to how ASIAN stars THEMSELVES talk about the west. For example, Takeshi Kaneshiro himself said in a BBC interview that he doesn't want to make movies in the west because asian stars are treated badly here. Ziyi recently said the same thing (a Chinese interview), that after Crouching Tiger, she was offered really stereotypical roles in the U.S., and she turned them all down. Gong Li and Michelle Yeoh have said the same things--and have stayed away from making movies here. Also Jackie Chan has gone so far as to REFUSE western distribution of his latest movie because he believes that it will be butchered by western distributors. He also regrets trying to work in the U.S because he was made into a mockery and a side-kick.

While there are rumors that Kaneshiro will make a Onimusha movie in the west, he has also said that he is tired of asian actors being represented only as martial artists, and nothing else. The discussion about his sexuality thus hits deep for some of us "asian" fans, because asian stars are not seen as being "macho" enough for male leads in western movies. Tell me: when was the last time you saw an ASIAN MALE LEAD in a U.S. movie? Even a movie like "Last Samurai" had TOM CRUISE as its lead. How sad is THAT?

Some of our responses (GUEST Take's frustration, for example) come from the reality that there are NO Asian MALE LEADS in the United States (or in European movies, for that matter). The fact that the only possible lead that Kaneshiro is being offered in the U.S. is a martial artist based on a video game--when Kaneshiro is known for his ROMANTIC leads--is another example of how Asian stars are stereotyped and undermined.

Speculative discussions about Kaneshiro's sexuality is a symptom of the greater problem.

Before you make personal attacks, please be sensitive to the reality that Asian stars are often de-sexualized or made into effeminate people, incapable of being male leads. Read interviews by leading directors from China and Japan about how they are dissatisfied with how their stars are treated in the west.

These are not racist comments--these are sad realities.

[Trendie]

Dear Jadedragon, I think you still have not a good understanding on Asian terms. There is really such a term as "country pumpkin" and its ruder counterpart "mountain tortoise" used to refer to people who are backward or ill-informed. Secondly, mind you, isn't this supposed to be a forum? Sidetracking the issue to Take's rudeness, as an escape to the regulars' comments about Takeshi?! Don't make me laugh. And dear Miss Carlos, aren't your comments about me equally agressive as Take's. Also, who started the gay issue: webmaster and mrstakeshi ?! Worse, you are trying to rebuke those that have something good to say about Takeshi and those who stand up to tell some of you off. Please look at yourselves before criticising the new guests. You are just embarassing yourselves. And Veronica: you are probably the worst of the lot, picking on what the new ones with evidence have to say and trying to get yourself off the hook. I think this is the last posting I'm putting up here, the site's got plenty of good pictures of Takeshi but a few really ugly members as well, and I wish to be no part of it. Dear Miss Carlos: "It seems like you, Asian Female and take are only focused on everything Asian, which is borderline racist. You're being close-minded. It sounds like you three only WANT him to remain in Asia and have only Asian fans from Asia." If you look at the only few postings I have, and I can tell you I don't know who Take and Asian Female are, aren't you the one that is truly racist. It seems to me you may like Takeshi, but not his Asian fans.

[Webmaster]

Well, seriously, why is this? Why fight?

I am not trying to take sides, I don't want to ban anyone and I am not going to. I really want to understand the core of this problem here.

Okay, maybe in my own definition it's alright to check in with gossips so that at least I know what's going on with my favorite actor. I think a little gossip is not harmful or disrespectful - after all, with Takeshi in particular, the guy is mysterious and low-key that almost every piece of news about him can be considered "gossip" or "rumor". He never respond to anyone of them personally. For me, I've never wanted to be a "blind" fan. I don't want to ignore the negativities... so it's okay to talk about it *with a sense of humor.

I did not start the gay rumor, it was the media, of course I don't have such power. However, yes, I started this thread just like any other news threads on here... as I'd explained before on page one that I was just letting the English-speaking fans know that such news had been reported by the media. All the Chinese fans know it. It was posted and discussed on major Chinese Takeshi forums.

Now how people want to respond to it and talk about it, that's not what I can control. They don't work for me. I believe people are free to express their opinions but I do have a bottom line as I set up a guideline. But even with a guideline, people are still not following the rules. Look at what's happening here. I don't want to name names but it's not just un-registered guests, MEMBERS as well.

Somehow someway it'd led to fights. As I understand that there is another problem too - about how Westerns look at Asian (male). There are actually, as I know, quite a number of so-called Westerns or non Asian fans who participate on the forum. Perhaps besides the subject of Takeshi, they're coming to learn about the Asian culture, posting a few rather personal comments about TK or other Asian actors... and they might've offended other guests/members. If so, the positive way to "educate" them would be to calmly discuss the issues, no? Why start a fight? It does no good. On the other end of the scale, maybe the posters shouldn't have written their opinions/questions with sensitive words such as "sooo gay" in the first place.

I don't think it is healthy to continue discussing about this topic anymore. I'm going to put this case to rest. I was never intended to stir up such debate or hatred. I'd said it in my introduction and guideline that I want to make this a pleasurable, fun place for all TK fans to hang out. Where is the line to cross, though? There is just no pleasing everyone

I ask of you, all guests and members, to be considerate, respectful and resourceful. Think before you post and I will try my best to do the same if I'd been too sloppy with my posts.

If you have any questions or sugguestions, you're welcome to email or PM me.

Webmaster